WEBVTT

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city of Kingston proudly acknowledges

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the Bunurong People of the East Kulin Nation

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as the traditional owners and custodians

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of this land and we pay our respect to

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their Elders past present and emerging

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Council acknowledges the Bunurongs's

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continuing relationship to the land and

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waterways and respects that their

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connection and spiritual identity is

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maintained through ancient ceremonies

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song lines dance and living culture

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Council pays tribute to the invaluable

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contributions of the Bunurong and other

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Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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Elders who guide and continue to guide

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the work that we do

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um just a note on the recording of

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Council meetings for the purpose of

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transparency this public meeting is

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being recorded and streamed live on the

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internet the recording will be archived

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and available on council's website

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www.kingston.vic.gov.au however for the

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purpose of public safety this public

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meeting is also being recorded by CCTV

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all care is taken to maintain your

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privacy however as a visitor in the

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public Gallery your presence may be

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recorded I would like to thank all

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members of the gallery and those viewing

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this meeting online for your attendance

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I would remind all attendees and that

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any disruption interjection

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participation in the debate is

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prohibited and attendance at Council

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meetings is an observatory capacity only

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unless otherwise directed by the chair

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please also note that the operating that

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operating photographic audio video

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recording equipment or any other

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recording devices prohibited during the

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meeting for access accessibility

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purposes printed in electronic agendas

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via iPads are available in the gallery

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closed captioning is also available for

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members of the public who are streaming

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this meeting via our website

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um

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so item one are apologies now I

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understand we have two apologies this

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evening

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from uh councilor Bearsley and also

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councilor Cochrane

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and I I also note that we have an

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apology from the CEO 

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counselors can I have a motion to

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receive apologies

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um councilor Davies

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and seconded councilor Davey Burns this

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doesn't need any debate so all those in

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favour

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uh

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that is carried thank you

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confirmation of previous minutes

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and I don't

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believe that this will require any

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debate also so

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um can I have a

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motion to move the minutes thank you

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councilor Saab and seconded uh Council ?

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thank you

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so uh we'll put that item to the vote

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all those in favour

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that's carried thank you

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foreshadow declarations by councilors of

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officers and contractors of any

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conflicts of interest I've not been

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told of any so that doesn't require

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anything just for noting

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um

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so item four which is the planning and

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place reports so item 4.1 is town

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planning applications July 2023

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um

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can I please have a mover thank you may

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councilor Saab and seconded councilor Davies

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uh did anyone wish to speak to this at

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all

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no

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okay if not we'll put that on to the

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vote also

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all those in favour

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that's carried thank you

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and um

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then we moved to item

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4.2 which is

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kp2022 forward slash 804 site to the

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rear of 118 to 146 Palm Beach Drive

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Patterson Patterson lakes and I

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understand we have

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an object objective speaking this

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evening Mr Rick price

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so if Rick's here thank you

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um

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so if you just push the middle button

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then you can speak and you have four

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minutes from the time that you commence

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my problem is that too close

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all right

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perfect

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um look thank you everyone

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um four minutes is not a lot of time and

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I don't want to get caught up in too

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much unnecessary detail I can only

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assume everybody understands what the

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proposal and the planning permit is

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requesting

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um but from a uh from the people sitting

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behind me and online I've been sort of

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asked to speak for 16 residents that are

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directly affected by this proposed bike

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path that runs down behind our

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properties

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um I'm a 20-year plus Community member

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10-year plus direct resident to the pro

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to the area where it's proposing active

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Community member around the Nippers

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program at the surf life saving club and

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I continue to patrol active Snap Send

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solver and help coordinate and moderate

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our local crime page so really really

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involved in the community I'm a lover of

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the seafood Wetlands I'm a lover of the

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aspect that we have from where we live

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and again I'm just talking on behalf of

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my neighbors that are here um The

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Proposal through the great initiative to

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to work on improving the wetlands and

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the infrastructure and Facilities within

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came to the the note that they need to

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close the loop around the wetlands the

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seafood Wetlands has a loop and it's

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been used for decades I use it myself

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often as to a lot of my neighbors and it

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continues to be used for this very day

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the problem is that the the loop that

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gets used has the Levy Bank on the

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southern side on the Frankston Council

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side is where people use it that we

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understand that a feasibility study was

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done and Melbourne water in control of

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that Levy Bank they weren't to my

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understanding willing to come to the

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party of spending any money to repair or

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remediate or make that a suitable place

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for this path to exist and the cheapest

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solution was proposed which is behind

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our properties

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it's definitely not the best solution

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for the community

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the southern Levy Bank is in is an

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obvious need of of Maintenance it's it's

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ratted pothole I've got photography

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evidence but I'm not sure if I can show

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that here anyway but it's in it's in a

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really bad way and I've been reporting

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it for quite a while on Snap sense of

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watching people have accidents it's as I

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said you'd ride a bike along there with

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your kids and it needs it needs some

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some work done to it

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and I think that the choice of coming to

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the northern side and using some of the

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existing path and then creating a new

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path behind our properties is it's a

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part of the problem the consultation

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wasn't run very well at all Frankston

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Council and 12 that we weren't really

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involved there was no local knowledge

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request you know we we understand that

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that area we use often

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um I'm starting to panic I'm running out

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of time now

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um we won't properly

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um involved in the planning process

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ultimately it came down to there's two

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options we put a path along the back of

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our Properties or we extend the path at

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the front of the properties

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um to create this loop on the other side

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of the um of the waterways uh 100 of the

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people directly infected uh all of us

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are 100 are against and oppose it a

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survey was done where 80 percent of

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respondents chose option A which was on

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the rear of our properties as opposed to

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option b and I believe that only 12

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percent of those people were from the

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Kingston Community and and obviously

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none of them directly affected by this

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proposal so people aren't really

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considering the big picture the problems

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that they're going to be created over

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and above the loss of amenity for us who

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have chosen to buy and live there

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Safety and Security concerns as well

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um

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there's going to be increased traffic

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conjunction congestion because now we've

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got a new opportunity for people with a

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bridge near the pumping station to pick

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up school kids and drop off and the like

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which is going to create more issues for

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pedestrian and vehicular conflict noise

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pollution strain on infrastructure

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potential decrease in property values

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replicating and already dangerous

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dangerous congestion around the Trade

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Winds Court area where people try and

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pull in and drop off their kids it

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creates easier access to the rear of our

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properties and an easy Escape route

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route in and out of the remote Wetlands

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at night with that new New Path creates

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more access for monkey bikes and things

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which is already an ongoing problem

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because we're going to be removing

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gateways to create this New Path so it's

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going to increase that process

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we really feel that um we've got a

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Visionary

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um solution to this where instead of

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putting another small bridge near an

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existing already tiny bridge at the high

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school to create this sort of this Loop

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the obvious thing to us is that somebody

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stands up and and forces the issue for

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the southern Levy Bank to be remediated

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and create the loop that it already is

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and then maybe we consider connecting

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the Seaford Patterson lakes and current

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communities in that area by by thinking

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about a bigger bridge and maybe some

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Pathways from the Trade Winds Court so

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that people can do a a nice little Loop

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in that Reserve area to drop their kids

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off and safely drive out again as

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opposed to all the three point turns and

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things that happen

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Emma road is the same issue on the other

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side where people have to drop off and

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create that problem and then you've got

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this meter wide little bridge where

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where everybody has to pass pass each

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other when you've got a pram or a dog so

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um oh no it's a it's a different topic

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but yeah but we think more information

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or more thought has to go into a better

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solution for the community as opposed to

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this short-sighted

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um solution okay our part of the back of

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our properties

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um thanks Mr Price and uh yeah we gave

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you a little bit of extra time just so

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you could uh you need to have a clock

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see

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our time's up oh sorry okay thank you

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thank you very much thank you

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um I note that we also have another

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speaker joining us online

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um Sarah Chute director of deca

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is that Sarah in the waiting room

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okay

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hello Sarah can you um hear us yes I can

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hear you okay great

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um so it's uh

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it's counselor Chris Hill here

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um uh can you please turn your camera on

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um when you're speaking Yeah I always

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just oh there we go I've just there we

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go I was on there we go there we are

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perfect all right um no thanks for

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joining us this evening now you've got

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four minutes which commences from when

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you when you start speaking and uh we'll

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let you know um when your time's up but

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there will be a note on the screen also

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so

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um time starts when when you come in

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speaking thank you

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great thank you for the opportunity to

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provide information on behalf of the

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Seaford Wetlands Rejuvenation project

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Steering group The Steering group

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comprises representatives of Frankston

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and Kingston City councils bannerong

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land Council Aboriginal Corporation

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Melbourne Water Deca and the state

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member for Karim Sonja Kilkenny the

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Steering group is responsible for

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delivering decision making and

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delivering the 5 million election

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commitment to improve the amenity and

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usability of seafood Wetlands including

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landscaping and environmental works and

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upgrades to paths and Facilities Seafood

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Wetlands is actually owned by Melbourne

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water and Frankston city council the

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shared use path the shared use path is

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one of seven projects being delivered

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and a key feature of that path is the

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ability to provide a loop around the

00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:25.200
wetlands I won't speak to items in the

00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:26.639
planning offices report these are well

00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.799
addressed my information will focus on

00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:30.759
why the location of the shared use path

00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:32.360
on the Northern Levy Bank of Canada

00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:34.480
Creek was chosen by the Steering group

00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.960
in February 2021 the ghd engineering

00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:39.360
consultancy were commissioned to do in

00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.480
engineering and feasibility assessments

00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:43.799
of potential new links in the active

00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:45.279
transport Network around Seaford

00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.559
Wetlands this included additional

00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:49.240
assessments of the shared use path to

00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.159
examine locations on the Southern and

00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:52.919
the northern Levee Banks of Canada Creek

00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.919
the studies concluded that the southern

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.200
Levy Bank was the least preferred option

00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:00.000
as it would require a substantial

00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:01.960
construction to widen the current Levy

00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:03.639
to be fit for purpose as a shared use

00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.360
path there were safety concerns

00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.720
potential impacts to flooding regimes

00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.919
and major legislative implications and

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.480
requirements in particular to protect

00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:14.240
biodiversity a particular issue is the

00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:15.519
impact the works would have on the

00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.960
Seaford Wetlands which is an

00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:18.480
internationally significant Wetland

00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.679
under the ramsar convention which is

00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.440
about protecting habitat for bird life

00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:24.480
including rare and endangered migratory

00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:25.720
Birds

00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:27.600
Additionally the wetlands contain

00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.039
numerous matters of National

00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.799
Environmental significance listed under

00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:33.279
Federal legislation so those

00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.200
circumstances result in really high very

00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:36.759
high construction costs through the

00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:38.200
amount and complexity of the work

00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.679
required a long time frame to deliver

00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.039
the path and of greatest note the high

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.120
potential to not actually receive any of

00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.080
the federal approvals to do the work due

00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.480
to the impact on biodiversity values

00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.360
the assessment for the northern Levy

00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:52.600
Bank found that the works would have

00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.399
minimal impact on existing environmental

00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:56.200
conditions there was adequate clearance

00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.600
to the creek with little or no fencing

00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.399
required and it was unlikely to impact

00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:02.559
flooding in the broader flood plain it

00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.480
avoids flooding hazards and it had very

00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.799
limited flora and fauna values

00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:09.000
so in terms of the northern side of

00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.080
Canada Creek and the decision to locate

00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.679
the path behind residences on Palm Beach

00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.200
Drive rather than in front of them this

00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.360
decision was based on community feedback

00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.279
Kingston council did staff did speak to

00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:22.960
Residents directly affected by the

00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:24.879
proposal to go behind residences in

00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.360
March 2021 of the 15 residences

00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.759
consulted 11 responses were received in

00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:32.919
which 10 were opposed to the proposal so

00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.559
that's consistent with the objections

00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.759
received for the planning permit however

00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:39.360
in February and March 2022 Frankston

00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.320
city council held Community consultation

00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.240
on the two potential shared use path

00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:45.000
options on the Northern side of Canada

00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.559
Creek that broader consultation found

00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.720
that 81 of community responders

00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.399
preferred the path going behind

00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.360
residences on Palm Beach Drive based on

00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.240
that broader consultation the Steering

00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.039
group endorsed this option in July 2022

00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.320
thank you for the opportunity for me to

00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:02.799
provide this information on behalf of

00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.080
the Seaford Wetlands project Steering

00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.399
group

00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.840
thank you very much Sarah

00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:13.320
um you you can continue watching the

00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.600
meeting online but if you can please

00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:18.120
turn off your camera I certainly will

00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.399
great thank you thanks very much

00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:23.360
all right um councilors do I have a

00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.559
motion cancel the sub

00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:27.919
thank you I'd just like to move the

00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.600
officer recommendation as it appears on

00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.000
the screen

00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:32.159
thank you

00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.360
um do I have a seconder

00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.759
uh councilors takeoffs

00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:38.159
um councilor Saab do you wish to speak

00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.720
I'll speak very briefly

00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.360
uh thank you

00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.600
Mr chair uh

00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:46.559
I recognize the comments of the the

00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.919
objectives and the rigorous consultation

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.799
and the explanation by Sarah of the

00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:54.639
process that we've undertaken to date

00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.039
and the process that Frankston city

00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.200
council have undertaken to date

00:15:58.279 --> 00:15:58.799
um

00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:00.879
I guess I'm supportive of the officer

00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:02.919
recommendation for a few particular

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.679
reasons one is that it is through public

00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.559
open space land that is open to the

00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:09.360
community and the public

00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:09.919
um

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.720
I recognize that this is a thoroughfare

00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:15.759
that is needed in the space we recognize

00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.240
that that is needed whether or not that

00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:18.600
is in this location or another location

00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:20.679
is what was up for debate

00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.440
um our consultation dictates from our

00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.120
community that this isn't really

00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.759
the process that they want to follow but

00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.159
it is a that this is the outcome that

00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.240
they want this area but I believe that

00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:34.200
this is the best possible outcome given

00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:35.679
the consultation for the broader area

00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:38.480
for what we're hoping to achieve the

00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.320
shared user path is necessary for the

00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.039
space we recognize that

00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:48.399
I'm giving those a few objections as

00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.240
opposed to the broader space I'm very

00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:54.360
supportive of the officer recommendation

00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:56.879
okay thank you mayor sub councilors take

00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.000
us do you wish Reserve does any other

00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.080
counselor wish to speak

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.079
uh Council David Burns thank you may I

00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.319
please just ask a question to the

00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.599
relevant officer and

00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:12.720
yes

00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.799
um I think

00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:18.400
right okay

00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.079
um yeah just depending on the question

00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.240
just a couple of quick questions the

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.319
first one was in relation to the point

00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.160
made about the southern Levy Bank being

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:28.920
a location that this would be

00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:30.319
appropriate and I know that our speaker

00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.920
is just spoken to some of the costs and

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.440
the impact of the wetlands but I'm

00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:35.680
particularly Keen to hear from our

00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.839
offices about that position

00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:41.960
Mr Carnival

00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:44.079
through you Mr Mayor

00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.400
um sorry Deputy man

00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:50.440
in terms of the consideration of the the

00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:52.960
application the planning department only

00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:55.960
considers that which is before it so

00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.240
in terms of considering the location

00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.440
it's literally just an assessment

00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.119
against the northern path being located

00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.279
on that side of the bank

00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.680
okay thank you and Council Dave Burns

00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.440
have another question my other question

00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.039
was just in relation to the safety

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.839
concerns raised and just as someone who

00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:18.599
regularly Cycles along the Long Beach

00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.160
Trail which does back onto a number of

00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.920
properties from mortalic down to

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:25.720
aspendal and edithvale I was just Keen

00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:27.279
for further advice if that's permissible

00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.559
and is in this context

00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.680
uh thank you Mr Goodman three Mr Deputy

00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.759
Mayor um the officer report provides

00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.920
some useful photographs counselor

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.240
David Burns of

00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:46.680
um the potential existing use by the

00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:48.519
community of that path and in fact the

00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:52.599
path having had a look at near maps how

00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.960
photography seems fairly regularly used

00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.039
based on the nature of the erosion of

00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:58.759
the area

00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:00.400
um generally our experience has been

00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.400
where for example the level crossing

00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.519
removal project have built shared user

00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:08.440
paths in a more structured way there are

00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.599
a lot safer than for users who might

00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.519
have limited Mobility or have access

00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.319
issues compared to what seems to have

00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.519
become of quite informal path being

00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.720
maintained in the in the way it is one

00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.319
Nuance in this area too is that a number

00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.599
of the Residential Properties have quite

00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:30.720
effective passive surveillance over

00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:32.920
where the path proposed would actually

00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.400
be due to the nature of the manner in

00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.640
which their fences are presented as not

00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.359
being solid

00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:44.079
um so although that clearly does derive

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.319
some concern for the objectives around

00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.559
um who might be able to send to their

00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.000
properties it does also create another

00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.440
dimension in terms of providing extra

00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.119
perceptions of being observed when

00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.079
you're walking through that area thank

00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:03.400
you

00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.920
thank you Mr Goodman

00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.519
councilor Davey Burns did you have any

00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.960
thank you

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:14.880
um councilor Howe

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.759
thank you and I'd like to foreshadow an

00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.680
alternative motion to the officer

00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.039
recommendation that is currently

00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.559
displayed and obviously this is quite

00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.240
bewildering that we're even in this

00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.279
situation where Kingston Council was

00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.759
advertising a alignment that it did not

00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:34.240
support it clearly did not support this

00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.000
and it happened when the council through

00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.640
its chief executive in mayor wrote to

00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.799
the Minister Louis d'ambrosio and the

00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:43.759
minister and also member for Karim Sunny

00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:47.079
Kilkenny opposing the alignment over the

00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.720
creek embankment with a preference for

00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:51.519
Palm Beach dry where there's an existing

00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.319
path and certainly access very clear

00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.759
access

00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.759
so you can get around the loop of the

00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.359
correct that's not an issue whatsoever

00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.960
and some of the issues that were raised

00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.640
by Kingston Council in its position

00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:07.759
which has changed tonight which is

00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:10.480
disappointing we're privacy we're

00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.960
amenity and if you go to Clause 1402 it

00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.839
picks up on these issues and I don't see

00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:19.759
that that they have been met I believe

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.079
that there's a clear amenity in privacy

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.640
breach and I see this is ramming it

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.319
through tonight an outcome that aligns

00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:29.880
with the state government's intentions

00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:31.839
and as to what Franks and councils come

00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.079
up with in their bogus consultation of

00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.440
Frankston and rate players mostly it's

00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.319
completely and totally irrelevant it's

00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.680
got nothing to do with Kingston Kingston

00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.119
right players come first in Kingston

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.640
and that is the end of the story bottom

00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.880
line we've got very clear feedback from

00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:49.599
our community tonight and we need to

00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.440
represent their concerns as to the

00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:53.519
southern

00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.799
embankment which has come up tonight and

00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.640
oh you know there might be some costs

00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.039
involved in there

00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:00.440
guess what

00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:01.799
that's what happens when you build an

00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:03.039
infrastructure project there is cost

00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.400
involved and there's costs involved

00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.319
there because as you heard from Rick

00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:09.640
Pryor so local resident who's proud to

00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.079
represent his community is that area has

00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:13.559
deteriorated

00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:15.720
now there are concrete Parts running

00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.160
right through the secret Wetlands to say

00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.680
that there's

00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.960
um you know an issue with ramsar uh

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.400
I think I'm a bit lost there you've got

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.759
paths running through the wetlands

00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.799
putting one alongside the creek on the

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.680
other side if you were to take that

00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:35.920
direction does not does not have any

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.200
more or any less impact on the wetlands

00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:39.759
and the current parts that are there

00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.920
obviously clearly

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.519
and so when the council went and wrote

00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.079
to our state counterpart and said that

00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.119
they very strongly objected to on

00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:51.200
falling grounds of privacy and amenity

00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:52.559
and that goes on

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:54.759
and uh we had the mayor get involved

00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:56.319
there and the chief executive they have

00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.240
to be coming back with the town planning

00:22:58.319 --> 00:22:59.319
department

00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.799
from Kingston different part of Kingston

00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.359
said oh we support this well the only

00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:05.519
outcome this Council should be

00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:07.440
supporting is the alignment that they

00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.519
said they supported the beginning which

00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:11.799
was on Palm Beach Drive it was never on

00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.680
their Creek embankment and that is the

00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:14.880
outcome it we should be sticking to

00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.400
tonight this motion on the screen should

00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:18.960
be voted down and we definitely need to

00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.279
be going with the alternative motion I

00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.240
would like to move thank you

00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.880
thank you councilor Howe and I note your

00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.440
foreshadowed motion if this motion is

00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:28.720
lost

00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.839
um councilors takeoffs thank you

00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:34.000
um councilors

00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:35.680
tonight we're in a planning committee

00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.839
meeting

00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:38.640
which means

00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.799
we are considering things through the

00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.519
guise of the planning and environment

00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:43.960
Act

00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:47.279
everything that councilor Howe said

00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:50.039
is effectively what council would

00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:53.079
normally consider under the under the

00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:54.640
Local Government Act

00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.680
that's a different hat that's a

00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:58.200
different place that's a different role

00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.079
we're not performing those duties

00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.640
tonight we're not performing that role

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:03.640
tonight

00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.400
and we need to be really careful

00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.279
for the time that we have left

00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.640
dispensing the duties as the responsible

00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:15.759
Authority Under the environment under

00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.279
the planning and environment act that we

00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.519
do not confuse those two roles

00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:26.200
I don't disagree with the points that

00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.200
were made by councilor Howe council did

00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:34.200
make advocacy on those issues we did try

00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:38.400
to inform the government and we did try

00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.519
to change the government's alignment

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.640
but when an application

00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.720
is received by our planning department

00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.839
it needs to be assessed and it also

00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:53.400
needs to be assessed against the

00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:54.960
planning provisions

00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.079
and what our planning department has

00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:00.880
said under section 12 of the report is

00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.839
that the proposal is considered to be is

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:06.039
to is considered to substantially comply

00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:09.039
with the relevant planning policy and

00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.920
therefore should be supported

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.400
it has been determined The Proposal is

00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.079
the proposed use is considered

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.960
appropriate for the site as evidenced by

00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:21.880
the strong local and state policy

00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.039
support in the provision of pedestrian

00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.680
and cycling links along the Waterway and

00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.160
public open space areas The Proposal

00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.000
will not have a detrimental impact on

00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:33.200
surrounding properties particularly the

00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:34.319
land

00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.759
as the land is already used informally

00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:38.559
for Public Access

00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.400
The Proposal will provide a benefit to

00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:43.559
the broader Community improving

00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:46.000
pedestrian and cycling connections and

00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.519
enhancing access to the natural

00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:49.480
environment

00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.559
The Proposal satisfies the requirements

00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:53.039
of the Kingston planning scheme

00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.640
including the public users own and when

00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.519
we make decisions on these issues our

00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.839
decisions need to be confined to the

00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.400
planning assessment against those

00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.880
requirements

00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:13.319
if this issue isn't resolved tonight it

00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.759
will be resolved in another forum

00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:17.680
you all know that

00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.720
let us not kid ourselves what the

00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:21.880
outcome will be

00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:23.880
if we

00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:24.519
um

00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.880
we know what will happen here

00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.039
Council has been presented with an

00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.319
application the application has been

00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.559
assessed as appropriate and we have

00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.319
very I don't think we have any grounds

00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.759
on which to reject it thank you

00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:45.440
thank you councilor stacos uh does any

00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:47.079
other counselor wish to speak to the

00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:48.640
item

00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.799
no

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.079
um did you wish to close

00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.799
in which case

00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.319
I'll call the vote all those in favour

00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.279
all those against

00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.200
all those abstaining

00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:09.640
I'll note that as carried thank you in

00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:11.400
our Court Division I actually can't see

00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:13.119
anyone tonight on the screen as well

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.119
thank you yep so

00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:17.759
um we'll call a division in which case

00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.079
all those in favour will stand thank you

00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:24.400
um May asab councilor Davies councilor

00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.079
Council Davey Burns and councilor stacos

00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:28.839
and myself

00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.160
and all those against if you can just

00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.920
raise your hand um councilor Howe

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.839
for the games

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.240
thank you

00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.680
so

00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.359
I sorry I declare the division carried

00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.240
thank you

00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:51.400
um

00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.079
thank you we therefore move on to the

00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.440
next item which is uh item 4.3 KP

00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:01.160
2022

00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:05.240
60a 70s

00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:09.079
oh sorry

00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:11.680
4.3 which is

00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:16.480
kp202268 71 Catherine Avenue Chelsea I

00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.480
understand we've got a speaker for the

00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:23.519
objectors uh Russell King

00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.559
uh yeah so um if you just push the

00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.400
center button

00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.440
it'll it's uh it'll have a little green

00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.039
symbol there

00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.200
um and then you have four minutes to

00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:51.759
speak thank you Mr King and uh your time

00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:53.200
will commence from when you start

00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.720
speaking

00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.200
thank you very much for the time to be

00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:13.559
able to speak to you uh I'm calling in

00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.559
not in the fact that I'm objecting to

00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.000
the men's shed

00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.000
I'm objecting to certain things that

00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.640
have taken place

00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:25.920
I don't know whether you've got the

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.200
counselors have got copies of the

00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:32.680
correspondence which I had with uh

00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:37.119
Joe Mellows and I must apologize for my

00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.799
misspelling of my response there in in

00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:41.960
that regard

00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.079
uh with regards to the mean shed I've

00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.119
had several matters which I would want

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.279
to discuss with the city

00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.440
the extension of opening hours which are

00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:52.960
far too excessive

00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.559
and would interfere with the privacy and

00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:59.960
invasion of privacy of the area

00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.119
um

00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.400
I have here

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.920
a resolution of which I think was passed

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.759
by Council which extended the hours

00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.400
um where are we

00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.519
can't find it now uh

00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:23.319
yes and these hours originally were to

00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.079
be Monday to Friday if my memory serves

00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.079
me correctly and now it's Monday to

00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:30.319
Friday

00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:35.079
nine till five and four some in some

00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:39.519
instances the facilities open to private

00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.400
conferences and things at in the

00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.680
evenings and also on Saturday

00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.519
from nine o'clock to 1 pm now I don't

00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:50.519
know whether you were there last

00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.160
Saturday there was a football Final on

00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.440
right opposite right opposite and there

00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.279
would have been three to four thousand

00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:04.200
people there and the cars there were in

00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:06.799
enormous quantities and it wasn't a

00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:08.759
Chelsea Football Club

00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:13.000
uh final it was a local District final

00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.759
so that that in itself is something

00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.599
which uh needs to be considered the

00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:23.319
parking facilities are non-existent the

00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:25.440
lack of parking facilities also make the

00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:26.680
extended hours

00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.519
unwarranted and the construction of a

00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:31.839
driveway

00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.559
very close to the intersection itself is

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.799
not only presents a risk it's a danger

00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.400
to the general public as well as other

00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:42.559
motorists

00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.720
the establishment of parking for three

00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.400
cars and a loading Bay on the site

00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.440
is all that is being provided

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:57.079
three cars and a loading Bay now we we

00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.680
get that idea from I don't know but you

00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.880
know on several occasions I've expressed

00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:05.680
a willingness to meet with those

00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:06.960
responsible

00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.000
on the site

00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.359
to discuss some of the ways in which it

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.839
can be improved and the hours reduced

00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.559
down to a common sense thing the hours

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.359
have been changed several times let me

00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.640
point out something very ironic though

00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.160
before that even when the announcement

00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.680
of the men's shed going there was to be

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.880
in according to the announcement the

00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.079
sound would be sound Factor would not be

00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.680
as dangerous as previously expected

00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.319
because the house next door was solid

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.240
brick well whoever surveyed the area

00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.799
must have had a seeing eye dog because

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:52.599
the house next door is weatherboard and

00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.920
according to your surveyors it is solid

00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.319
brick this is just a typical example and

00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.279
the council has totally ignored ranking

00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:05.400
a meeting with me on the site so as I

00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.039
could point out some aspects which might

00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:10.559
bring about an improvement in parking

00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.119
now I see my times just about expired

00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:16.200
but if you've got any questions I've got

00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.319
plenty of pieces of paper here I've got

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.680
a file at home that thick but I could

00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.240
show you but you know not being willing

00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.000
to meet me on site not being willing to

00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.640
discuss the matter and I mean discuss

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.799
the matter properly and civilly is a

00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.079
greatest appointment and I must also

00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.680
point out that my local counselor hasn't

00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.680
made any statement in relation to the

00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:43.240
men's shed to Residents in the area

00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:46.400
thank you very much

00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.000
thank you very much for your time Mr

00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.319
King

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.359
as we don't have a speaker for the

00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.000
applicant I'll ask our councilors if we

00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.319
have a motion thank you I'll move the

00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.200
officer recommendation

00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:04.359
thank you councilor stacos can I have a

00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:06.240
second uh

00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:09.519
cancers take us do you wish to speak

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:11.679
um yes I just wanted to clarify

00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.519
something just asking a question

00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:17.679
um

00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:19.840
just a question to the irrelevant

00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.039
officer my understanding is that the

00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.960
permit for this application just one

00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.199
second sorry um Mr King do you mind just

00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.280
um taking a seat whilst councilor stacos

00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.320
is speaking thank you thank you my

00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.000
understanding is that Council has

00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.239
already granted

00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.920
um a permit and that this permit is to

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:44.199
change the hours of operation is that is

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.519
that my is that correct so the the

00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:49.239
actual layout of the car park and the

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:50.920
driveway that's already been approved by

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.599
the council

00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:55.519
um

00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:59.559
Mr Carnivale thank you

00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:06.599
through you Mr deputy mayor

00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:09.519
um so the the aspects of the amendment

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.239
um they include to add community space

00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.639
to the use of the land so the permit um

00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:18.400
that was already issued uh is for a

00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.440
men's shed and this amendment um

00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.840
includes to add a community space to the

00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:24.840
use of the land what that would

00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.880
essentially do is allow some additional

00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:30.760
uses like book clubs movie viewing

00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.000
nights art classes and the like the

00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.159
amendment is also to increase the number

00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.079
of patronage so the current permit

00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.239
allows 23 people on site at any one time

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.840
the amendment if approved will allow 27.

00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:48.719
um there is also therefore a further

00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.599
parking reduction that's proposed as

00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:52.599
part of this amendment

00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:54.840
um the current reduction is one car

00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.079
parking space with the additional

00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:00.039
patronage it will increase it to a three

00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.679
parking space reduction

00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.119
um at the moment or as part of The

00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.639
Proposal there are five spaces on site

00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.280
and the requirement would be eight

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.960
there's also an amendment to the hours

00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.679
of operation and that is from Monday to

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:21.599
Friday 9 to 1 30 to increase to nine to

00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.840
five and on Saturday from 9 till 12 30

00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:28.199
to increase from 9 to 1. sorry

00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.400
um thank you for outlining all those

00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.480
points but what I was asking was the

00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.760
structure the car park and the driveway

00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:36.719
are not changing as a result of

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.599
tonight's application is that correct

00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:42.880
through you Mr Deputy Mayor that is

00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:43.920
correct

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.280
um the building itself has already been

00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.760
approved and that isn't changing

00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:49.199
so

00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.599
just to be clear and thank you for

00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:54.000
confirming that Mr carnavale the

00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.440
building has been approved it's an

00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:59.199
existing building the modifications have

00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.719
been approved the car park has been

00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.400
approved the driveway has been approved

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.360
while we're coming back tonight to do is

00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:10.559
to change some of the uses to allow

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.239
non-min's shared activities to occur on

00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.519
the side so that Community groups can

00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.159
also use it and they were outlined by Mr

00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:22.480
carnavale and what we've also said is

00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.119
that whilst we're allowing additional

00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.599
patrons to be on site we are not going

00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.719
to require additional car parking now I

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:35.320
do note the objector has discussed some

00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:39.280
of the concerns he does have about the

00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:40.400
football

00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.920
situation or the sporting

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:47.320
situation at the oval down the road now

00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.559
what I would say is is that the

00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.199
situation that we have with the sporting

00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:55.360
club down the road is that that sporting

00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.280
club

00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.599
we have done a lot of consultation with

00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.519
the sporting club and their hours of

00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.719
operation and the hours of operation of

00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:06.239
the

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:06.840
um

00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.119
men's shed are at different times and so

00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:12.239
what we are

00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.800
confident of is there isn't going to be

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.519
a major conflict of the number of cars

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:19.960
that we're going to have in the street

00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:22.239
with the patrons of the two different

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:24.360
uses that are very close to each other

00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:26.480
the other thing that I'll say is this

00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:28.639
particular building used to be a

00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.239
kindergarten that kindergarten operated

00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.599
there for quite some time and we did

00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.880
have a lot of vehicle movements

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.480
associated with the pickup and drop-off

00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.440
times with that kindergarten and that

00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.519
kindergarten had less car parking

00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:45.159
available than we will have with men's

00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.639
shed so I do understand that you know

00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.440
the objections made by this objector and

00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.760
that you know Council I'm sure will be

00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.440
happy to speak to him after tonight's

00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:00.639
decision regardless of whether this

00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.639
particular whether my motion gets up or

00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.960
not but regardless of what happens

00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:08.079
tonight

00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.119
the men's sheds there and it will

00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.280
continue to operate the question is

00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.239
whether we want to allow the use for

00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.320
additional groups to meet there and

00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:19.320
whether we want to go to the hours of

00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:21.760
operation that we always intended to go

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.840
to that's the other question we actually

00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:28.880
made an error Council made an error with

00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:34.920
the last uh permit that we approved and

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.239
we decided as a council to do the right

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.000
thing and re-advertise the new hours of

00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:43.440
operation instead of just approving A

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.719
variation without advertising which we

00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:47.880
could have done it would not have been

00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.119
the ethical way to do it it would not

00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.440
have been a good way to treat the

00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.199
community but we put that sign up and we

00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:56.559
informed the community that we were

00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.599
extending the hours and we've done it

00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:01.239
and we've received one objection and I

00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:02.679
think we've received that objection

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:06.400
because of all the reasons outlined but

00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.400
we haven't received more than one so so

00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.360
I think we do need to do some more work

00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:12.519
with with the neighbor who's come

00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:14.920
tonight but I do think that the

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.599
application is worth supporting

00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.960
um thank you councilors

00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.599
thank you thank you councilor stacos um

00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:25.480
do you wish to speak

00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:27.840
I might just ask a few questions if I

00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.360
can of the relevant officer I believe Mr

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.079
Carnival or Mr Goodman

00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:35.559
um just wanted to clarify some of the

00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:37.239
questions I think that came from the

00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.519
objective was around this issues of of

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:41.400
parking and I've noticed as well in the

00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.199
report that there is a question around

00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:45.960
that the patronage would be about 27

00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.599
people with eight car spaces allocated

00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:51.719
to that just wanted to understand I

00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.079
guess the cast parking requirements on

00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:56.119
the site where it's being met and then I

00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:57.599
guess the additional car parking

00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.960
availability around the space firstly

00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:02.320
thank you

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.599
yeah Mr carnavali yes through you Mr

00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.280
Deputy Mayor um so the application

00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.760
requires a car parking reduction so

00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.920
there are eight spaces that are required

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.519
for 27 people on site and the proposal

00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:20.000
has five car parking spaces uh four of

00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:23.400
those spaces are along the western side

00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.920
of the site and another car spaces on

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.400
the Eastern side of the site which

00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.960
allows for trailer parking as well

00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:32.480
um the application was referred to

00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:34.360
council's traffic department who

00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.960
reviewed the traffic generation that

00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.000
would that this application would

00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:42.239
accumulate and they've assessed that

00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:45.079
with no objections raised saying that

00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.239
the five spaces on site and the

00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:50.760
surrounding streets can accommodate the

00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.559
um the two car parking space waiver that

00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:55.000
would be required as part of this

00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:57.519
amendment the hours of operation were

00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.280
also considered to be limited in terms

00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.199
of the consideration of parking demands

00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.079
thank you Mr carnavali

00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:09.239
thank you Mr Carnivale I did have

00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:10.199
another

00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:12.840
question that you almost alluded to

00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:15.079
completely but was just around the

00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:17.679
change I guess of operating hours from

00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.920
what was currently permitted to what is

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.440
being sought after in this application

00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:26.079
and then an understanding I guess of uh

00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.519
well actually I'll ask that question

00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:28.840
first and then I'll ask my next question

00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.639
thank you

00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.119
yes through you Mr Deputy Mayor so the

00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:36.639
current permit allows hours of operation

00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:41.199
Monday to Friday 9 A.M to 1 30 p.m and

00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.480
Saturday 9 A.M to 12 30 P.M

00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.360
the amendment will allow 9 A.M to 5 P.M

00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:52.519
Monday to Friday and 9 A.M to 1pm on

00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:54.840
Saturday

00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.519
mess up thank you just one last question

00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:00.880
before I make a comment I just wanted to

00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:02.880
understand I guess consistent with our

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.159
other men's shirt if able to answer

00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.599
if we've got a general understanding of

00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.239
what the operating uses are of some of

00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:14.320
those men sheds that exist in the city

00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:18.360
Mr Goodman

00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.280
three Mr Deputy Mayor I wouldn't have a

00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.599
comprehensive list but um there's

00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:26.199
certainly been a lot of discussions

00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.079
about trying to make sure that these

00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.639
facilities are able to be used

00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:34.960
effectively by as many members of the

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:36.639
community as possible

00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.960
the Moira collection when this um

00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:42.599
facility was being discussed the group

00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.280
that largely run the facility were very

00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.239
keen to involve younger people as well

00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.519
in their Endeavors

00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:50.159
um

00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.599
I note tonight too that there are you

00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:54.119
know a number of other activities that

00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:56.440
potentially would be able to use this

00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:58.960
facility just to expand on Mr

00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:02.679
carnavale's previous answer the facility

00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.719
also benefits from its proximity to a

00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.400
council Reserve where there is also

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:12.039
significant car parking available not at

00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:14.239
all times and we acknowledge Mr King's

00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.760
challenge over the weekend with the

00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:18.719
amount of football activity that was

00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.039
clearly affecting the amount of traffic

00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.239
in the area but there is

00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.000
an overflow area almost immediately

00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:29.559
adjacent to this facility thank you

00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:32.320
thank you Mr Goodman

00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.599
thank you for those answers uh listening

00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:38.480
to the objectives comments I think what

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:39.840
I'm really picking up on is that there

00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.639
might have been a process failure in

00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:44.199
engaging with Mr King in a I guess a

00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:45.719
really forthcoming way and I think

00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:47.880
that's something as Council stacos had

00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:50.159
mentioned is something that we should do

00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.320
irrespective of where we land with this

00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.000
particular application whether it's this

00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:57.000
motion up now is approved online I

00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.000
believe that we should be supporting

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:00.599
this motion

00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:03.360
um I've had a lot of conversations with

00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:05.159
a few other men's sheds throughout the

00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:07.760
city and they talk about a lot of the

00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.079
social aspect of the men's shed not

00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.119
necessarily the genuine the general

00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.239
operations of what they do and how

00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:16.440
important it is to the Social and Health

00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:18.519
and well-being of the people who

00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.039
participate in men's shed and I

00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.320
recognize that a lot of that stuff

00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:24.239
happens actually outside of the hours of

00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:26.400
when their normal men's shed operating

00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:29.199
so I'm fully supportive of the need to

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:31.119
actually be able to support that growth

00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.639
support the need that they are looking

00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.920
forward to get younger people involved

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.920
as Mr Goodman had mentioned uh into the

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.639
men's shed but also just recognizing

00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:43.239
that this application is specifically to

00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:44.559
understand that we're trying to bring

00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:46.599
everything in line to what the men's

00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:48.440
sheds needs are

00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:51.119
and that is so that they can continue to

00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.800
run in a regular amount of time nine to

00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:55.960
five Monday to Friday which is a very

00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.119
reasonable set of hours for a community

00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:02.639
center or space but also uh we're only

00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.320
extending an additional I think it's 30

00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:06.480
minutes or an hour I think an extension

00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.559
on the Saturday so it's not like this is

00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:12.159
a new introduction of a Saturday usage

00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:13.840
um but just so that they continue to do

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:15.039
the work that they need to do so they

00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:16.360
continue getting all of the social

00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.880
benefits out of the spaces that they're

00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.039
using it for and getting that aligned

00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.320
with what the planning scheme and the

00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:24.480
planning zones and I guess this planning

00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:27.480
permit will do for those reasons as well

00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.159
and considering this is an application

00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:31.840
for us not for I guess the use but

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.079
rather just for what we can uh not for

00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.000
sorry for the planning it's the plan

00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:38.800
itself but for its use I'm very

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.880
supportive of the application tonight

00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:43.480
thank you mess up

00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:45.239
um do any other councilors wish to speak

00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.719
councilor Davies

00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:49.960
uh thank you Deputy Mayor I'm very

00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.079
conscious that this is already an exist

00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.199
existing use I am a big supporter of the

00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.280
men's shed I think they provide uh

00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.480
fantastic assistance to all ages

00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.360
particularly in mental health and we

00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.840
know that men have by far the highest

00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.719
rate of suicide so I do think it is

00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.639
important that we support the male

00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:10.960
members of our community as much as

00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:13.360
possible I'm conscious that the increase

00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:16.480
on Saturday is 30 minutes and we are not

00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:19.400
going outside standard business hours so

00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.880
we would not be you know we're not

00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:23.320
talking about late night activities

00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:25.480
which would impinge when families are

00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.000
home and having dinner and trying to

00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.360
relax after work and I do know in terms

00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:32.920
of parking given that there is a

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.920
football oval and parking there across

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:36.239
the road you don't normally see a

00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.960
football game between nine and five on

00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:41.000
Monday to Friday so I do think that

00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:43.599
reducing the car parks by three I think

00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.679
we can cater for those needs I am very

00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:47.920
conscious of the concerns of the

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.079
objector and clearly you know there's an

00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:51.760
issue that we could reflect on in terms

00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.719
of communication and trying to ensure

00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:56.719
that you know if a resident does raise

00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.960
an issue we try to deal with their

00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.199
matters in a timely manner we're not

00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.880
always going to reach agreement but I do

00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:04.519
think it's important that we listen to

00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:06.760
concerns and we provide the information

00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:08.679
as to why we might have an alternative

00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.960
view so I do appreciate the objective

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:13.519
coming down tonight and giving us his

00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.880
thoughts and I I do appreciate him

00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.519
expressing all his concerns so thank you

00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:21.880
thank you councilor Davies

00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:23.880
um does any other counselor wish to

00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:25.480
speak to this item

00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.840
if not I'll put the item to the vote all

00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:31.639
those in favour

00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.960
um I know that is carried

00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.960
and then we'll move on to the next item

00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:43.880
on tonight's agenda which is Adam

00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.920
number 4.4

00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:54.519
kp2021-845-71 arga Street Cheltenham

00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.880
um do I have promotion thank you mess up

00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.760
and a seconder thank you councilor

00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:01.679
Davies

00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:03.480
mess up did you wish to speak to this

00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:04.760
item

00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:06.639
only very briefly just to say this is a

00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:07.960
really straightforward application we

00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:10.119
don't have an objective speaking on this

00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:13.000
tonight I haven't received uh objections

00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.519
I believe for this planning application

00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:18.599
Ah that's right wasn't advertised thank

00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:20.440
you sorry but it's a very

00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:21.880
straightforward application it's an

00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:23.239
existing

00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:26.320
uh kindergarten space that we are

00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:28.079
redeveloping

00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.480
and this is just a formal process that

00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.440
we need to follow given it is land on

00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:33.960
countless Council land that we're

00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:35.559
assuming to have to follow this process

00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.599
and bring it to the chamber for a

00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:38.800
resolution

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:42.719
that's it thank you thank you mayor sub

00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.639
councilor Davies did you wish to speak

00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:48.039
um thank you any other councilors wish

00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:49.719
to speak to this item

00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.119
uh if not mess up did you wish to close

00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:53.920
no

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.960
um then I'll put the item to the vote so

00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.960
all those in favour

00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.679
I know that is carried

00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:06.519
and um

00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.639
no confidential items in which case I've

00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:12.039
confirmed the meeting closed

00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.639
at uh 7 54 pm

00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:20.360
thank you everyone